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	<title>Comments on: Clarity Emerges: A tale of Phi, The Golden Ratio and The Chambered Nautilus</title>
	<atom:link href="http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/</link>
	<description>small bites to think talk &#038; walk</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: paul bannister</title>
		<link>http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>paul bannister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-151</guid>
		<description>hi nat

as an occultist and "metaphysical mathematician" i do feel that eg phi ratio and eg the square root of 3 :- 1.73 that is contained in the vesica pisces are mainly gateways to the mind of god and the universal consciousness.

I also thank you for the chaos/order combined word you mentioned in this blog; I will follow that up(and clarts! for better clarity and synchronicity) The mentioning of the alphabet and its design is good too when one uses say basic numerology of a=1 thru to z= 26 to decode things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi nat</p>
<p>as an occultist and &#8220;metaphysical mathematician&#8221; i do feel that eg phi ratio and eg the square root of 3 :- 1.73 that is contained in the vesica pisces are mainly gateways to the mind of god and the universal consciousness.</p>
<p>I also thank you for the chaos/order combined word you mentioned in this blog; I will follow that up(and clarts! for better clarity and synchronicity) The mentioning of the alphabet and its design is good too when one uses say basic numerology of a=1 thru to z= 26 to decode things.</p>
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		<title>By: Natalie Shell</title>
		<link>http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Natalie Shell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-98</guid>
		<description>thanks for all this.
Shell, I promise to keep exploring these oceans!! Please just add whatever vague thought or tangent comes to mind. That is part of the dialogue - to extend the posts in directions I never imagined they woud go because of your sparks. And El and Joel, I will try to clean up my act as it synthesises. Charlie, love that you dive right in with me and add to the dialogue! 
Thought you might all like to read about this experiement about us not seeing things in front of our eyes if we're not looking for them. A classic experiment on visual processing involves asking people to watch a video of 6 people passing a basketball, and press a button every time a particular team has possession. Invariably only about half the people tested ever notice a woman in a gorilla suit walking across the middle of the screen during the game. We're such a shallow people.

Source: Simons, WJH, Harvard 1999</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for all this.<br />
Shell, I promise to keep exploring these oceans!! Please just add whatever vague thought or tangent comes to mind. That is part of the dialogue - to extend the posts in directions I never imagined they woud go because of your sparks. And El and Joel, I will try to clean up my act as it synthesises. Charlie, love that you dive right in with me and add to the dialogue!<br />
Thought you might all like to read about this experiement about us not seeing things in front of our eyes if we&#8217;re not looking for them. A classic experiment on visual processing involves asking people to watch a video of 6 people passing a basketball, and press a button every time a particular team has possession. Invariably only about half the people tested ever notice a woman in a gorilla suit walking across the middle of the screen during the game. We&#8217;re such a shallow people.</p>
<p>Source: Simons, WJH, Harvard 1999</p>
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		<title>By: Rachelle</title>
		<link>http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 01:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-95</guid>
		<description>Hi Nat

This is the first time that I have posted to your blog, although I do read it quite often.  I think the reason why is that often I don't really have any response to add, other than gladness that I was able to have some nat-isms to brighten my day.  This is the same response that I have had to this post too.  There are glimmers of your beautiful personality coming through, but it felt like the ideas were tumbling out of your head frantically into a pool of words on the page.  I just felt like I was reading transcript of a conversation we would have on the phone.  I'm not sure if this was your intention.  

Anyhow, keep exploring those oceans!!  

With Love,
Shell


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nat</p>
<p>This is the first time that I have posted to your blog, although I do read it quite often.  I think the reason why is that often I don&#8217;t really have any response to add, other than gladness that I was able to have some nat-isms to brighten my day.  This is the same response that I have had to this post too.  There are glimmers of your beautiful personality coming through, but it felt like the ideas were tumbling out of your head frantically into a pool of words on the page.  I just felt like I was reading transcript of a conversation we would have on the phone.  I&#8217;m not sure if this was your intention.  </p>
<p>Anyhow, keep exploring those oceans!!  </p>
<p>With Love,<br />
Shell</p>
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		<title>By: joel spiro</title>
		<link>http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>joel spiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2005 06:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-94</guid>
		<description>Hey nat.

I love following your MINDSPACE :)

(actually the more i read your blog the more i am reminded of my thoughts on how to notate as much thought from our mind).

The actual content itself could be cleaned up a bit. Made a bit more clearer. If you believe it is so important to what you are trying to acheive then perhaps you should re write it now that you have finished it. Put it through its own 'external' clarifying process... (i can see that internally you have been ordering and connecting those thoughts for a while.)

(as an exercise... try this if you want... Start with the outcome (is there one specifically?) rather than the story and then work backwards filling in the gaps of knowledge.) It might be interesting where it goes. Then you could even marry the two together to create a really solid Story. Ah fuck what do I know. :)

But regardless (excuse tortology)... love it, love it, love. Keep moving in the direction your miind takes you.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey nat.</p>
<p>I love following your MINDSPACE :)</p>
<p>(actually the more i read your blog the more i am reminded of my thoughts on how to notate as much thought from our mind).</p>
<p>The actual content itself could be cleaned up a bit. Made a bit more clearer. If you believe it is so important to what you are trying to acheive then perhaps you should re write it now that you have finished it. Put it through its own &#8216;external&#8217; clarifying process&#8230; (i can see that internally you have been ordering and connecting those thoughts for a while.)</p>
<p>(as an exercise&#8230; try this if you want&#8230; Start with the outcome (is there one specifically?) rather than the story and then work backwards filling in the gaps of knowledge.) It might be interesting where it goes. Then you could even marry the two together to create a really solid Story. Ah fuck what do I know. :)</p>
<p>But regardless (excuse tortology)&#8230; love it, love it, love. Keep moving in the direction your miind takes you.</p>
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		<title>By: charlie</title>
		<link>http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-93</guid>
		<description>Wow Natalie you are thinking and thinking as well as talking and walking. Thanks. 
Here follows a brief and less coherent comment rushed off because it feels good to respond...In considering the chambered nautilus and phi maybe you are well on the way to stripping away the constructs most of us safely hide behind, get diverted by and which too often lead to confusion in the guise of certainty, you are heading off for clarity and chose those symbols from your unconscious because they had already been chosen for you. 

However, the idea of the golden ratio is both clarity and perhaps a kind of arrogance, an imposed construct, it is the ultimate rationality, the interpretation (like the later Fibonacci sequence) of what is right and natural - right in the sense of true and real, no value judgement - a way for the rational mind to understand what was once intuitively and instinctively known. It doesn't ultimately matter how you name it, for some of us it helps to look at waves or fractals, some refer to sacred geometry or geomancy, all definitions are analytical tools that provide ways to help us to see the world and through the world.

Every generation uses the tools at its disposal to define the world around it. Now we can use newer physics, through chaos theory, waves and fractals to understand the how questions. It's always exciting to look at the world in new ways and it can lead to clarities. The magic of water was for so long simply appreciated and worked with, later scientific paradigms degraded it into neutered components and individuals and the worlds relationship with water became more troubled, newer paradigms have happily allowed us to begin to reclaim the magic through science. But the magic has always been there although there have been many times when our cultural consciousness didn't allow us to look at it in a non-rational way. New science has allowed us in some ways to join pre-rational and rational knowledge and reclaim the magic through, if you like, the intellect. I think I may need to go back to looking at water. Water does have answers, even when we continually ask the wrong questions.

Modern tools allow us to understand the HOW questions. 
But they can't address the WHY. Yet people go through life asking WHY? Why do we need to know why? Is this part of the rational human condition? Maybe we constantly ask the wrong questions. I have few answers.

All tools of analysis, from listening to stories to linear analyses through Darwinism and all later evolutionary models lead us to question. And from these questions we get led to sometimes unexpected answers.It is these " answers" that are important and lead to deeper knowledge because they pose more questions which lead to new ways of answering and new answers. I guess that the way to a peaceful conjoined existence is to have the same answers, whatever the questions?

The new part of our house was designed through sacred geometry  features outside are placed according to sacred geometry, we use dowsing as a starting point and work from there, so I suppose this is a happy combination of non-rational and rational. However there are times I'm really uncomfortable with the golden mean/sacred geometry view because it seems so intellectually imposed and what we're really looking at is finding ways to do what is right, true, real and it seems odd for us to be able to say that we have somehow discovered the way. But I suspect that's my hang up more than a metaquery about the validity of tools of analysis. 

Yes please to a link to glean some regularly wonderful quotes .

Thanks for being, for answers and for posing questions,
Keep well, 

Happy days, Charlie
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Natalie you are thinking and thinking as well as talking and walking. Thanks.<br />
Here follows a brief and less coherent comment rushed off because it feels good to respond&#8230;In considering the chambered nautilus and phi maybe you are well on the way to stripping away the constructs most of us safely hide behind, get diverted by and which too often lead to confusion in the guise of certainty, you are heading off for clarity and chose those symbols from your unconscious because they had already been chosen for you. </p>
<p>However, the idea of the golden ratio is both clarity and perhaps a kind of arrogance, an imposed construct, it is the ultimate rationality, the interpretation (like the later Fibonacci sequence) of what is right and natural - right in the sense of true and real, no value judgement - a way for the rational mind to understand what was once intuitively and instinctively known. It doesn&#8217;t ultimately matter how you name it, for some of us it helps to look at waves or fractals, some refer to sacred geometry or geomancy, all definitions are analytical tools that provide ways to help us to see the world and through the world.</p>
<p>Every generation uses the tools at its disposal to define the world around it. Now we can use newer physics, through chaos theory, waves and fractals to understand the how questions. It&#8217;s always exciting to look at the world in new ways and it can lead to clarities. The magic of water was for so long simply appreciated and worked with, later scientific paradigms degraded it into neutered components and individuals and the worlds relationship with water became more troubled, newer paradigms have happily allowed us to begin to reclaim the magic through science. But the magic has always been there although there have been many times when our cultural consciousness didn&#8217;t allow us to look at it in a non-rational way. New science has allowed us in some ways to join pre-rational and rational knowledge and reclaim the magic through, if you like, the intellect. I think I may need to go back to looking at water. Water does have answers, even when we continually ask the wrong questions.</p>
<p>Modern tools allow us to understand the HOW questions.<br />
But they can&#8217;t address the WHY. Yet people go through life asking WHY? Why do we need to know why? Is this part of the rational human condition? Maybe we constantly ask the wrong questions. I have few answers.</p>
<p>All tools of analysis, from listening to stories to linear analyses through Darwinism and all later evolutionary models lead us to question. And from these questions we get led to sometimes unexpected answers.It is these &#8221; answers&#8221; that are important and lead to deeper knowledge because they pose more questions which lead to new ways of answering and new answers. I guess that the way to a peaceful conjoined existence is to have the same answers, whatever the questions?</p>
<p>The new part of our house was designed through sacred geometry  features outside are placed according to sacred geometry, we use dowsing as a starting point and work from there, so I suppose this is a happy combination of non-rational and rational. However there are times I&#8217;m really uncomfortable with the golden mean/sacred geometry view because it seems so intellectually imposed and what we&#8217;re really looking at is finding ways to do what is right, true, real and it seems odd for us to be able to say that we have somehow discovered the way. But I suspect that&#8217;s my hang up more than a metaquery about the validity of tools of analysis. </p>
<p>Yes please to a link to glean some regularly wonderful quotes .</p>
<p>Thanks for being, for answers and for posing questions,<br />
Keep well, </p>
<p>Happy days, Charlie</p>
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		<title>By: Eliot Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliot Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://natalieshell.com/2005/11/30/clarity-emerges-a-tale-of-phi-the-golden-ratio-and-the-chambered-nautilus/#comment-92</guid>
		<description>Touching on many points very lightly. Apart from the folk tale about 
Columbus. You have identified 3 major areas of interest. 1. 
Scientific/Mathmatical analysis of Phi, 2. Social Theory and analogies using 
Phi, 3. Phi in folk lore, mythology, ancient cultures. Go a bit further into 1 &#38; 2. Tying together of these themes doesnâ€™t work so well. Instead of drawing on outside sources so much, perhaps make a stronger link with your own argument. The similarities are clear, but the meaning of their connection, and what their implications are, is not cohesive in this piece. 

I want to finish reading this and think â€œwowâ€¦ I never thought of it that wayâ€.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Touching on many points very lightly. Apart from the folk tale about<br />
Columbus. You have identified 3 major areas of interest. 1.<br />
Scientific/Mathmatical analysis of Phi, 2. Social Theory and analogies using<br />
Phi, 3. Phi in folk lore, mythology, ancient cultures. Go a bit further into 1 &amp; 2. Tying together of these themes doesnâ€™t work so well. Instead of drawing on outside sources so much, perhaps make a stronger link with your own argument. The similarities are clear, but the meaning of their connection, and what their implications are, is not cohesive in this piece. </p>
<p>I want to finish reading this and think â€œwowâ€¦ I never thought of it that wayâ€.</p>
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